Episode 126: What No One Tells You About Starting a Membership with Liz Beadon

September 20, 2022

Chasing Simple Marketing


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I'm  Amanda — simplicity-focused content marketing strategist.  I'm here to help you fit your marketing into your business.

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What no one tells you about how to start a membership with Liz Beadon so you can have a realistic plan for moving forward.

How To Start A Membership

Welcome to episode 126 of the Chasing Simple podcast. I’m your host – Amanda Warfield. If you’re a new friend, welcome! I’m so glad that you’ve found your way over here. And if you’re an old friend, welcome back!

You might know that I have a membership, Club Content Batching. What you probably don’t know is that I had absolutely zero desire to have a membership. In fact, the only reason that I did in fact turn Club Content Batching into a membership is because after teaching the course live 3 times, the feedback from students at the end was always the same – love the course, but I wish I had some accountability to stick with it. And thus, the membership was born.

And while I’ve come to be so very glad that Club Content Batching is a membership, you won’t hear me spouting off that you NEED a membership inside your funnel. For the right people, at the right point in their business, and within the right offer, they’re incredible. But that doesn’t mean you need to rush out and start one right this second.

Which is why I’m so excited to share today’s episode with you. This week I’m joined by the incredible Liz Beadon.

Liz is the founder of Loyalty Growth Lab. Having started her career helping some of the world’s biggest brands like Virgin and Samsung with customer retention and loyalty, she now helps membership sites and subscription services create enhanced members experiences that skyrocket retention and profitability.

And today she’s here with me to chat all about the things that no one tells you about starting a membership. By the end of this episode, you’ll have a much more realistic vision of what a membership looks like, and what you should consider as you start your own if you choose to. Let’s dive in.

Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

What no one tells you about how to start a membership with Liz Beadon so you can have a realistic plan for moving forward.

Liz Beadon is the founder of Loyalty Growth Lab. Having started her career helping some of the world’s biggest brands like Virgin and Samsung with customer retention and loyalty, she now helps membership sites and subscription services create enhanced members experiences that skyrocket retention and profitability.

Liz’s Instagram

Liz’s Facebook

Liz’s Website

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Rather Read? – Here’s the Transcript!

*Just a heads up – the provided transcript is likely to not be 100% accurate.

[00:00:00] Amanda: Welcome to episode 126 of the Chasing Simple Podcast. I’m your host, Amanda Warfield. If you’re a new friend. Welcome. I am so glad that you found your way over here. And if you’re an old friend, welcome back. You might know that I have a membership Club Content Batching. What you probably don’t know is that I had absolutely zero desire to actually have a membership.

[00:00:22] Amanda: In fact, the only reason that I did in fact, turn Club Content, Batching into a membership is because after teaching the course life three times, the feedback from students at the end was always the same, love the course, but I really wish I had some accountability to make sure that I stick with it. And thus, the membership was born.

[00:00:40] Amanda: And while I have come to be very, very glad that Club Content Batching is a membership. You won’t hear me spouting off that you need a membership inside of your funnel for the right people at the right point in their business and within the right offer. They’re incredible. But that doesn’t mean that you need to rush out and start one, right?

[00:00:57] Amanda: The second. Which is why I am so excited to share today’s episode with you because this week I am joined by the incredible Liz Beadon liz is the founder of Loyalty Growth Lab. Having started her career, helping some of the world’s biggest brands like Virgin and Samsung with customer retention and loyalty.

[00:01:13] Amanda: She now helps membership sites and subscription services create enhanced members’ experiences that skyrocket, retention, and profitability. And today she’s here with me to chat all about the things that no one tells you about starting a membership. By the end of this episode, you’ll have a much more realistic vision of what a membership looks like and what you should consider as you start your own.

[00:01:34] Amanda: If you choose to let’s dive in.

[00:01:36] Amanda: Liz. I am so excited to have you on today, and I’m so excited to share you with all my listeners and I am very, very excited for what we’re going to be talking about. But first, why don’t you just go ahead and tell us who you are, what you do and who it is that you serve. 

[00:01:53] Liz: Sure. Well, first of all, I’m also so delighted to be here.

[00:01:55] Liz: I’m so glad we found a way to make this work, but my name is Liz Beadon I am the founder of Loyalty Growth Lab, which is a business that helps membership sites and subscription services with retention and loyalty. So I spent 10 years of my career working for big brands like Virgin and Samsung started my business to now help smaller kind of subscription services do the same.

[00:02:20] Liz: What was there? Another question that I missed? I can’t remember. . 

[00:02:23] Amanda: I feel like that covers it. Who you are, what you do, who you serve. Yeah. That’s everyone, all the things. Perfect. Okay. So memberships. Yes. Really? The expert. They are the hot thing right now. Everyone has one. I have one, you have one, everyone has one and everyone’s talking about them.

[00:02:40] Amanda: Yeah for good reason. But I think because they are the hot thing right now, so many people are jumping into creating and running and owning a membership without really knowing what they’re getting into. So can you share some of the things that no one tells you about running a membership? 

[00:02:59] Liz: Definitely.

[00:03:00] Liz: I’ve been so excited for this conversation because I feel like I speak to a lot of membership owners at different stages of owning their, of, of starting their membership. I speak, I speak to people who are like in the ideation phase. I speak to people who have, you know, multiple six figure memberships and are doing incredibly well.

[00:03:19] Liz: and I feel like there are themes and trends and myths that are of, sold to people about having a membership. So I’m really excited for the, for this conversation. I think you’re gonna bring a really unique perspective as well as someone who has a membership too. So I’m really curious to hear what, what you think, but I’ve kind of come up.

[00:03:37] Liz: I guess three myths that I feel like are very prevalent in the membership space. And the first comes from a book that I was reading and, and the book was talking about passive income. And it was basically saying if you were to start a membership and you were to grow by one member every day and charge $50 a month by the end of the year, you’d be making over $17,000 per month.

[00:04:00] Liz: And I read that and I was like, oh my gosh, this person is selling a pipe dream because as I’m sure, you know, as well. Acquisition is really hard, right? So like to get one new member a day can be tricky, but retention is also really important. So it’s fair enough to model out this vision for your life, where you’re attracting one new member a day.

[00:04:22] Liz: But the reality is that you will have members fall off and cancel. And I think that’s one thing that a lot of people don’t think about before going into launching their membership 

[00:04:31] Amanda: i, I, that’s a myth that I bought into. I can say that right now. When I started my membership, I didn’t buy into the idea that it was passive income.

[00:04:40] Amanda: So I will say that that is, that’s a myth. I do see people buying into. Yeah. But I knew that it was gonna be work as yeah. Of past educator. I knew that like ongoing education was gonna be work, but I definitely thought, oh, I’m just gonna keep bringing in new people. It’ll be easy peasy. And then I started following you and I was like, oh, Retention that’s.

[00:05:01] Amanda: Yeah, that’s important. I, that, that makes sense. 

[00:05:06] Liz: a hundred percent and it’s something that’s I think so few people really think about, because again, I think it’s a really easy, like abstract idea to paint around like, oh, you can make $17,000 a month by getting one new member a day at $50 a month. And actually when you look, when you actually break down the practicalities and the realities.

[00:05:25] Liz: Bringing that to life it’s actually really, really difficult. so that’s kind of the first myth, I suppose. The second myth, which we’ve kind of touched on a little bit is around it being easy money. So I feel like, as I said, I see passive income coaches talk about starting a membership and how you can be on the beach, sipping margaritas, and you’ll have money rolling in.

[00:05:48] Liz: And I always say that having a membership is a little bit like. if you think about having a cactus versus having an orchid, for example, I feel like something like a course, like a digital course would be more like a cactus where you create the content. You, obviously you need to drive sales of it, but it’s one and done.

[00:06:07] Liz: Whereas in many memberships, especially I would say in like the coaching space, there is an expectation that you produce content. On a treadmill. So every month you have a training, you might have different modules and this can be exhausting for you as the membership owner. And it can also be overwhelming for your members themselves.

[00:06:30] Amanda: think that’s such a great point. I. Did not fall into that treadmill because I knew I was like, mm, this is a lot of work to create stuff. But even without doing that, it’s still a lot of work to show up and serve. Your members. So even when you’re like, no, I’m not gonna go to that treadmill. I know better than that.

[00:06:49] Amanda: Showing up consistently for the members in your membership is very time consuming. It is not passive. And I just wanna throw it out there. That passive income is a myth period. Friends. That’s not, it’s not a thing. There are ways to build a great business where you can go on vacation and enjoy other things.

[00:07:05] Amanda: Passive income is not this magic pill that we. Are taught that it is okay. So we know we need to focus on retention and we know that we don’t wanna get stuck on this treadmill of just constant content that we’re throwing down. Everyone starts in our membership. Yeah. What’s the third myth. 

[00:07:25] Liz: So the third myth is around membership being better money than something like a course.

[00:07:30] Liz: Again, I think the idea of this like reoccurring income is really. I guess appetizing for people because they think, oh my God, how amazing would it be to have recurring passive income? And actually I was speaking to a membership owner recently who had a, I think like a $1,000 course. And she was like, Liz, I wanna make my course into a membership.

[00:07:52] Liz: I wanna charge $50 a month. And I was like, hold on. . I said, if you were to do that, For every sale that you make to make the same amount from one customer of your course in your membership, that member would have to stick around for 20 months. So basically two years. How realistic is that like on average ish, roughly speaking in my experience, like the average membership retention rate is five to six months.

[00:08:19] Liz: So to say, okay, I want people to stick around for 20 months is huge. The flip side of that argument is you could say, okay, on a lower priced membership, you’ll have more people joining, but then for every one sale of your course that you’d make, you would need to sell 20 membership spots. If you see what I mean?

[00:08:37] Liz: It sounds like I’m trying to dissuade people from starting memberships. I just feel like I, I speak to membership owners. Like I’ve spoken to people who have wanted to start memberships, started memberships and then three months later been like, Liz, I hate this. I can’t do this. And it’s for these exact reasons.

[00:08:53] Liz: So I think raising awareness that this, like, this is a great model for some people, but it’s not for everyone, I think is like a big thing that I’m trying to land home with this . 

[00:09:05] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. And I I’m with you. That’s why I was like, this is a great topic because I think memberships are great.

[00:09:10] Amanda: Again, I have one, you have one, we both think they’re great, but. that doesn’t mean not every business model is right for every business. So I do think this is so important for everyone to know what they’re getting into. But now that we’ve talked about some of the myths, maybe let’s talk about what some of the benefits of having 

[00:09:26] Liz: a membership are.

[00:09:28] Liz: Sure. So there is definitely that recurring income piece. Especially if you have a kind of predefined, cancellation period, like you say, okay, you need to give X amount of months, notice it can really help you to model out your revenue for the next, quarter or six months or whatever. The community piece, I think being part of a membership community and really nurturing that can be a really special.

[00:09:50] Liz: Experience and also a great way to cross sell and upsell to your other offerings. Like it’s a great way to bring people in at a lower price, build that relationship and then cross or upsell to them. What has your experience been like? What would you say is like the best part of having started a membership?

[00:10:08] Liz: And what would you say has been the most challenging? Just to turn the tables on you, Amanda 

[00:10:11] Amanda: that is a great question. I would say the best part has been the community and watching. My members and my students support each other. That always just makes my heart so happy when we’re in the Facebook group.

[00:10:26] Amanda: And I will say, I don’t know if I should this with you, Liz, but I was very, very resistant to starting a membership. My membership was a course, and then all the students wanted ongoing accountability. And I was like, no, no, no, that’s okay. We don’t need to be a membership. But. After having over a hundred women go through the course and everyone wanted ongoing accountability.

[00:10:45] Amanda: I was like, all right, I guess we’re gonna do this. So I was very resistant at the starting membership because I knew how much work it was going to be. And the community aspect, really it just getting to hop on the live coaching calls each month. Has been huge. It just makes my heart so happy. I’ve had days where I go in and I’m like, I really don’t wanna do this right now.

[00:11:04] Amanda: I’m not feeling great. I have a headache, whatever. And then I get off the call and I feel so rejuvenated, like the community, I think hands down the best part of it. The hardest part. Can also be the community as far as sometimes it can feel like pulling teeth to get people to actually interact or show up.

[00:11:21] Amanda: And it’s one of those things where as a membership owner, you’re going, okay, what am I doing wrong? And how do I improve the experience for them, but also getting them to respond to that kind of question is hard if they’re not wanting, if they’re not involved. And so it’s kind of, I guess, two sides of the same coin, the community is amazing, but it also can be kind of hard to.

[00:11:41] Amanda: Continue to nurture that when people are falling off, for whatever reason, mm-hmm or focused on other aspects of their business, whatever that may. 

[00:11:50] Liz: Yeah. And I think that there will always, like, I always say, when you have a membership, the natural life cycle of a member is that at some point they will leave and it feels rubbish and it can make you feel really sad, but that, you know, it’s like death and taxes.

[00:12:04] Liz: It’s one of those things that, you know, you just have to accept that that’s kind of like the price you pay for having a membership is that you have to feel the pain whenever someone cancels but I think as well, In terms of how, and I think a lot of the work that I do is around there is cancellations or churn that you can control and churn that is not in our control.

[00:12:22] Liz: So when we look at the things that are in our control, so looking at things like your offering, your member experience, how do we make that as strong as possible? So that as few people as possible who come into the membership turn around and end up leaving. And there’s also something around, you know, the majority.

[00:12:38] Liz: I think without Excel, I’d be curious to hear what your membership does. But most memberships that I work with have a pretty strong like ads funnel that drives people into the membership and by improving their retention rate, they’re massively improving the return on the investment of the ads. So there’s also like there’s so many different, I guess, perspectives as to the benefits of maximizing your retention.

[00:12:57] Liz: But specifically with like the offering and. Firming up what it is that your membership helps people achieve and helping them get there as fast as possible and as effectively as possible. Doing customer research and member research can be such a powerful thing. Whether you are someone who is at the beginning of your journey about to start your membership, or whether you’re someone who has 2000 members and is a bit like, oh my gosh, the memberships become a Frankenstein or Frankenstein’s monster, rather because we have so much stuff in there.

[00:13:24] Liz: Like what, what is the, the meat and potatoes and what is the fluff that we can take out because often less is more.

[00:13:31] Amanda: Love that all about the simplicity. I actually don’t use any paid ads in my business. Wow. 

[00:13:38] Liz: Yeah. 

[00:13:38] Amanda: Props to you, Amanda, organic marketing. I mean, you know, that’s awesome. Pros and cons is all of it.

[00:13:43] Amanda: I just haven’t had the bandwidth to fiddle with it yet and learn it. And then all of the new apple updates, I was like, I’m not messing with this anytime soon. Fair. Yeah. So one day, hopefully, but I, yeah, I 

[00:13:53] Liz: haven’t yet. No. That’s great. I mean, and that will also help your retention because it means that you’re building relationships before they join.

[00:13:59] Liz: So your members will be more sticky. 

[00:14:01] Amanda: Absolutely. That is definitely my main focus is just strong relationships with the, the audience that I already have versus a ton of growth. Okay. Yeah. So we’ve talked, myths, we’ve talked benefits. I’ve got two questions that are kind of similar.

[00:14:15] Amanda: First one, what would you say to someone who’s thinking that they might want to start a membership? What would be the number one piece of advice you would give them? 

[00:14:22] Liz: I would definitely say, make sure you have your audience built first. I see a lot of people who come to me and want to help building the, the offering of their membership.

[00:14:33] Liz: And the challenges that we can, we can strategize and build a good membership, but if you don’t have the audience to sell to, and this is one of the, I think, most challenging things for new, for new membership owners is. Launching, and then having the risk that like three people join and then you’re stuck delivering a membership.

[00:14:52] Liz: That’s not really making you a meaningful amount of money. Like at the end of the day, we love our memberships. We love serving people, but if it’s not paying us a meaningful amount of, of revenue or a meaningful amount of money, it’s not good for anyone. Like it’s not good for you. As the membership owner, you’ll start to feel resentful.

[00:15:09] Liz: It’s not good for your members. So I would say definitely focus on building that audience. Upfront, like the moment that you’re thinking of having a membership start a Facebook group, or start an email list, start thinking about how you’re going to. Build, your prospects to then drive into the membership 

[00:15:24] Amanda: friends.

[00:15:25] Amanda: I want you to take that piece of advice and use it for every single offer you ever create in your business. Please don’t create an offer that your audience isn’t asking you for, cuz it’s not gonna sell. And that sounds really harsh, but I. A launch. Everyone thinks that a launch is going to be the end, all be all, and it’s going to drive all these sales.

[00:15:42] Amanda: A launch is only going to get you so far if your audience has not asked for your offer. So thank you for 

[00:15:48] Liz: that. Or if you don’t have it, if you don’t have an audience. Yeah. That, that too. 

[00:15:52] Amanda: yeah. There’s no audience to launch too. You’re the launch is going absolutely nowhere. 

[00:15:56] Liz: Exactly. And ideally you’d have that audience and you would then, put it to research and say, how do you feel.

[00:16:02] Liz: Joining a membership that does this, you then break down every single element that you’re thinking of putting into the membership. So before you even launch you have, you have data and you have numbers to back up and justify the direction that you’re going in versus kind of putting your finger in the air and saying, well, I think maybe we’ll do this, but you’re right.

[00:16:19] Liz: That does apply for, for any offering.

[00:16:21] Amanda: I love it. Okay. So what about the person who. Hadn’t heard this advice yet. They started their membership and now they’re like, mm, this isn’t doing anything for my business. And I am in that place of, I don’t think I wanna continue this. What advice do you have for them?

[00:16:36] Liz: So this is a really interesting one. I think. Really, I think it would depend on the membership. I think if it’s a very new membership with a handful of members, you could just shut it down and just, maybe survey your members, see what’s working and what’s not. And then when you get the results, look at, okay, how do I redirect what’s working and what’s not into something new, whether that’s a course or whether that’s something else, whatever that thing is.

[00:17:00] Liz: I have maybe a slightly controversial opinion for people who have more established memberships who want to close them down. So my feeling is that if you have people who want to be part of your community or your membership who are paying you every single month, whether it is $20 or $50 or a hundred dollars, I.

[00:17:19] Liz: Think that it is better for you to email those people. If you’re deciding to close the membership down and basically say, Hey, Amanda we’ve decided that as a business, we’re gonna be putting our efforts. In other projects that said, if you’re still getting value out of the membership we’re going to keep you subscribed and we’re gonna leave it available for you to continue to use, but we will no longer be updating it.

[00:17:42] Liz: So essentially you’re retaining that revenue stream, but you’re managing expectations that you will no longer be updating it. If you see what I will. So it’s, it is kind of the best of both worlds in terms of you retain that revenue stream and you can focus on other things and expectations. 

[00:17:58] Amanda: Phenomenal. I love that idea.

[00:17:59] Amanda: It’s kind of like when you’re ready to, pivot in your business and your, you know, the email list you currently have may not be right, but you give them the app or you don’t just unsubscribe everyone. You say, Hey, this is what’s gonna be happening. Moving forward. You can take it or leave it kind of thing.

[00:18:16] Amanda: I love that. That’s a great way to look at it. And 

[00:18:18] Liz: I’ve seen, so like I’ve seen memberships with hundreds of members who have just closed down and unsubscribed to everyone and I’m thinking, oh my gosh, that’s so risky for the membership owner. That’s a huge revenue lost. So yeah, personally, I think that’s a, a better route to go down.

[00:18:31] Amanda: Okay. And we definitely didn’t plan to talk about this, but I’m gonna ask you anyways, because I know it’s a hot button topic for you. Pricing your membership. What advice you have on that for someone who’s just starting out, 

[00:18:45] Liz: this is a tough one. I think it really depends on your membership and your comfort levels.

[00:18:50] Liz: I totally appreciate that. There are people who feel like they want to have a founder member rate, for example, and they might have a slightly lower price. I personally always suggest that if you’re launching a membership, having a. Trial period can be a really powerful thing. So you basically go to your audience, you say, Hey, it’s gonna be X price.

[00:19:09] Liz: It’s gonna be a three month long beta, but you’re gonna be charged monthly unless it shuts down at three months, basically. So you manage expectations. And within that three months, you really have a playground to understand if you enjoy it, if you don’t. But those people, if you choose to continue, we’ll stay on that price.

[00:19:25] Liz: What I see a lot of is people who price themselves solo. That they are struggling to make any revenue out of their membership. They’re not making any money and they’re putting a lot of work into it. So it creates a resentment where it’s like, I’m showing up every day for my, my members, I’ve got, 250 members and they’re paying $20 a month and they keep wanting more and more and more of me and they’re not paying me enough.

[00:19:49] Liz: And it’s, it’s like, it’s really not a good taste for anyone. It’s not a good taste in anyone’s mouth. The other benefit, I think of having a slightly higher price point and really charging a, a decent amount is that the people that you attract will be different. Right? So like, if I think about whenever I’ve been given something for free.

[00:20:09] Liz: Actually, I’ll give you a great example. So I got a Christmas gift this year and I was like, oh, I don’t know about this. Like, I don’t know if I like it. I was kind of like a bit meh about it. And then I looked online at how much it was worth. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually a kind of expensive gift.

[00:20:22] Liz: And all of a sudden my view of this gift that moment ago, I’d like almost disregarded. I was like, oh my, like, I might actually use this now, which is ridiculous. But it’s just the nature of, I think human psychology that when we, when we have something for cheap or for free, we value it less. In your membership, this will manifest as your member’s not doing the work, not getting results.

[00:20:42] Liz: And then turning around and being like, well, the membership’s not very good because I haven’t achieved this thing that I wanted to achieve when actually it’s a function of, they were never invested to begin with. So I think asking about price is kind of like how long’s a piece of string. I think there’s definitely like a floor that I would not go under.

[00:20:59] Liz: And maybe that would be like, again, it depends on the membership. It’s really hard to say. I don’t even wanna give a number. 

[00:21:06] Amanda: that’s fair. That’s totally fair. 

[00:21:07] Liz: Yeah, it really depends on, on, on the membership. But I would say, say don’t be afraid. And again, this is not me saying like charge your worth charge a thousand dollars a month.

[00:21:16] Liz: You’re worth it because I think that’s kind of a negative. Thing that we can be told sometimes this is me saying like you, this is a business for you and you are providing for your family, right? Like this is your job. You’re not doing this for a hobby. You’re not doing this for fun. And so don’t be afraid to charge based on that.

[00:21:35] Amanda: I love it. That yes, absolutely. okay. So everyone now is curious about memberships. They’re thinking this could be something that they could do, but they’re also aware. That it’s not all sunshine and rainbows and that there are some things that they’re going to have to really think through when they’re planning their membership.

[00:21:54] Amanda: What would be one action step that you would give everyone who is thinking? This might be something that I wanna add to my business model. 

[00:22:02] Liz: So I think if you’re in a position where you have not launched the membership yet I would map out what your membership would look like in your ideal world. Would you have, I often use the framework it’s called SAPs.

[00:22:15] Liz: I’m not sure if you’ve heard of it, Amanda, but it’s it’s basically a loyalty framework that a lot of loyalty programs use to look at how they can increase loyalty from customers and it stands for stuff. So this is like the tangible things that people would get from the membership access. So access to you as the membership owner or special guests, whatever that looks like power, which.

[00:22:36] Liz: Asking your members to kind of steer the direction that they want the membership to take. In terms of, like, let’s say you’ve got monthly trainings, you could ask them, what kind of trainings would you want and then the last piece of status. So that’s really the, like how do you elevate certain members and celebrate them to be a lighthouse for other members to see what’s possible?

[00:22:52] Liz: So I would recommend that framework of looking at the, the S the, a, the P and the S to say, okay, in my ideal membership, what would go into each of these buckets? So you’re really breaking down. The tangible things that your members would get and also, you know, really get clear on the one sentence that your membership would help people with.

[00:23:11] Liz: I would then put that into research. So I’d say like, how interested would you be joining a membership that helps you to achieve X. On a 10 point scale, how valuable would you find it to have weekly coaching calls? How valuable would you find it to have whatever, like basically let’s list it all out and you can really validate your ideas with the audience that you’d then be basically pitching to join.

[00:23:32] Amanda: I love it. That’s a great market research. Okay. So. They’re doing this, they’re mapping it out. They’re doing their market research. They are getting ready to, to launch it and put it out there. And they know that they need to focus on retention more so than just massively growing and bringing in a ton of people.

[00:23:51] Amanda: And they want to learn more about working with you. What does that look like? How can they find you? 

[00:23:56] Liz: So I have, I guess, kind of two ways right now to, to semi work with me. One of them’s not so much directly working with me, but I’ve got I’m the founder of their Retention Club, which is a group for high level membership owners, where I basically break down the step by step approach that I use with my one to one clients to help Basically optimize the membership for retention, and then look at the member life cycle to maximize retention and revenue.

[00:24:21] Liz: So revenue per member. And how much is each member spending with you? Whether that’s through upgrading to an annual membership for monthly or buying a different product of yours, like that’s all part of that pro program. That is for more established memberships. If someone’s at an earlier stage and just wants to kind of like dip their toe into what I do.

[00:24:39] Liz: I have something called the Magnetic Membership Workshop Bundle, it was a virtual conference that I hosted in November. So a little while ago. And now the, the replays are available and that’s perfect for anyone who’s at a little bit of an earlier stage or for someone who’s just curious about retention overall.

[00:24:54] Amanda: Perfect. We will link to both of those in the show notes, and we will also link to your Instagram and all of them by themselves. So everyone can connect with you there. Now, I like to end every episode with a book recommendation and this can be business or fiction or whatever it is that you just feel like everyone needs to go pick up and read.

[00:25:12] Amanda: So what would that book be? 

[00:25:14] Liz: So I read a book recently that I loved and it was will Smith’s the memoir. It was called will. and have you read it? No, but I 

[00:25:21] Amanda: just had a feeling that was gonna be the one that you were gonna say. 

[00:25:25] Liz: I read that book and I could not put it down and it just completely, I don’t know.

[00:25:29] Liz: I thought it was just so inspiring his work ethic and his journey, and there’s so many good lessons in there. And Oprah said it was the best memoir that she had ever read. So if that’s not a ringing endorsement, I don’t know what is. 

[00:25:41] Amanda: I have it on hold at the library right now. So but it was like a 20 talked about it.

[00:25:46] Amanda: Of course it was a long wait. So hopefully I will get to read that soon. You guys should go probably put a hold on it at your library because everyone wants to read it right now. Liz, thank you so much for being here today. I think this conversation was practical, but also really, really enlightening for a very hot topic that I don’t think is getting.

[00:26:06] Amanda: It’s fair exposition in the online space right now. So I really appreciate you coming in and just being really honest about what it looks like during a membership and that it’s, it’s got some pitfalls and how we can kind of avoid those as well. 

[00:26:19] Liz: No worries, Amanda thank you so much for having me. It’s been a delight and a joy .

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