Episode 152: Building Strong Roots for Your Business with Joy Michelle

March 21, 2023

Chasing Simple Marketing


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I'm  Amanda — simplicity-focused content marketing strategist.  I'm here to help you fit your marketing into your business.

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On this week's episode, let Joy Michelle tell you how to make your hobby into a business and build a life that you love!

How To Make

How To Make A Hobby Into a Business with Joy Michelle

I’m really glad you’re here because today’s conversation is such an important one. We’ve all heard the statistics about how the majority of businesses fail by year 5, and I don’t want that for any of us in this business sphere. So I invited Joy Aleman onto the podcast to discuss exactly how we can build strong roots for our businesses – and continue to weather all of the entrepreneurial storms that come our way.

Joy is a mom of two, you-tuber and host of the Called to Both podcast, She is on a mission to help ambitious creatives balance the worlds of building a successful brand while building a life they love. After photographing weddings full time for 8+ years, She founded Photoboss®: a community and brand that equips photographers to build a profitable business. She is married to her Husband of 10 years (Felipe) and has two toddlers (Clara + Lewis).

In this episode, Joy is sharing 4 steps you can take to go from Hobbyist to Pro (and build those strong roots so that you can STAY a pro in business).

Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

On this week's episode, let Joy Michelle tell you how to make your hobby into a business and build a life that you love!

Joy is a mom of two, you-tuber and host of the Called to Both podcast, She is on a mission to help ambitious creatives balance the worlds of building a successful brand while building a life they love. After photographing weddings full time for 8+ years, She founded Photoboss®: a community and brand that equips photographers to build a profitable business. She is married to her Husband of 10 years (Felipe) and has two toddlers (Clara + Lewis).

Social Links:
Called To Both FB Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/calledtoboth
Photoboss FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/photoboss
IG: https://www.instagram.com/joyymichelle/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Ou6jRKxcjMrVMxWxLO_fQ
Joy’s Podcast https://joymichelle.co/called-to-both-podcast

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Rather Read? – Here’s the Transcript!

*Just a heads up – the provided transcript is likely to not be 100% accurate

[00:00:00] You’re listening to The Chasing Simple Podcast, episode 152, and I’m your host, Amanda Warfield. Welcome friend. I’m really glad that you’re here today because today’s conversation is such an important one. We’ve all heard the statistics about how the majority of businesses fail by year five, and I don’t want that for any of us in this business sphere.

So I invited Joy Oliman onto the podcast to discuss exactly how we can build strong roots for our business. And continue to weather all of the entrepreneurial storms that come our way. Joy is a mom of two YouTuber and host of the Call to both podcast. She is on a mission to help ambitious creatives balance the world’s of building a successful brand while building a life they love.

After photographing weddings full-time for over eight years, she founded Photo Boss, a community and brand that equips photographers to build a profitable business. She’s married to her husband of 10 years and has two toddler. In this episode, joy is sharing four steps you can take to go from hobbyist to pro [00:01:00] and build those strong roots so that you can stay a pro in business.

How do I run a successful business from my home? How can I possibly wear all of the hats? Am I the only one that struggles with staying? What am I supposed to do about work-life balance? How can I create a solid schedule and routine? How do I even stay productive? And the biggest question of all, how do I manage it all?

And can I really create a business that I love without being chained in my laptop? Welcome to The Chasing Simple Podcast. We’re hard conversations and actionable education. Meet simplicity. I’m your host, Amanda War. Time management coach, online educator, and crazy cat mama. My mission is to help overwhelm biz owners get more done and less time so that they have more time and energy for what matters most.

If you feel overwhelmed or occasionally lost in the roller coaster, that is entrepreneurship, [00:02:00] I want you to know that you aren’t alone. Those things you’re feeling, you aren’t the first or the last to feel that way. The hard things you’re going through, someone else has already been there too. Each week I’ll bring you transparent conversations, actionable steps, and a judgment free community to encourage and equip you.

So grab yourself a cup of coffee or whenever your drink of choices and meet Mimi here each week for love. Practical tips and advice on simplifying your biz. Let’s do this entrepreneurship thing together, shall we?

Are you looking to improve your content without spending a ton of time and mental energy doing so? Whether you’re looking for help, knowing what to talk about, setting up content systems. Or improving your launch strategy. The Chasing Simple Shop has something for you from a year of content prompts broken up by type of content to my launch strategy mini course, which will teach you my entire strategy for launching your [00:03:00] upcoming online course.

The Chasing Simple Shop is the quick and simple way to take your content to the next level, and you can get 10%. Any item just for being a listener of the Chasing Civil Podcast by using the Code Listener at checkout, just head to amanda warfield.com/shop. And again, that code for 10% off is listener Joy.

I am so excited to have you on today, and I would love for you to just start us off by telling everyone who you are, what you do, and who you. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. I am Joy Michelle. I run a brand called Photo Boss, where I help photographers scale or start a photography business to profitability.

So after photographing weddings and portraits, For over eight years, I now help photographers do the same. So I run a Facebook group called Photo Boss with Joy Michelle and a YouTube channel. And that really focuses on like the business [00:04:00] side of running a brand in a photography business, lots of marketing and that kind of thing.

Uh, and more recently I launched. A podcast for ambitious moms called To Both is the name of the podcast for women that are just feeling the pressure to balance it all. And I have two little kids and that’s probably where the whole podcast came from. So I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old, and now that I’ve scaled back a lot in my business in terms of hours, that is a big focus of what I like to talk about is how can we be full-time income, part-time hours and balance those two worlds.

That’s a little bit of what I do. Yeah. And I know that everyone listening is going to love your podcast because around here we are all about simplicity and finding that balance in life. Whether it’s, you know, just because you just don’t wanna work a full-time job or whatever reason it is that you wanna find that balance.

But I know that everyone listening really values that. And so I really encourage everyone to go listen to call to both because you think you’re gonna really enjoy it. Now, [00:05:00] I’m so excited to have this conversation of hobbyist to Pro because. . I know that there are many, many listeners who are in that space right now where they feel like maybe they’re not treating their business like a business, or maybe it is just, just quote unquote a side hustle and they want to grow it to more, but they’re kind of in this phase where they feel stuck.

And so I would love to hear what you think the difference between a hobbyist and a pro is. Because we can’t bridge the gap if we don’t know what the, the start and the end point. Yeah, I love this question. I think there’s so many people that are gonna be listening and are in Facebook groups and are kind of in this like learning phase that would identify as a hobbyist, but I feel like let’s, let’s kind of define the two in the difference.

I actually looked this up before hopping on this interview. The hobbyist or a hobby is an activity done regularly in one’s leisure, time for pleasure, and the professional is relating to or belonging to a [00:06:00] profession. So I personally think that the second you are taking money or trying to find more people to.

Take money or you’re trading money for a service, it becomes a business, right? So when you have an offer and someone pays you for it, even if it’s lower than you’d like it to be, or you just started last weekend, or you feel like you’re just starting out and you are still thinking you might fit into that hobbyist category, the second that there is that exchange of money, it does play into that business model.

And I think the word in the definition for one’s leisure time is important to. Point out because a lot of times creatives especially, they find pleasure in their work, right? So it says done in their leisure time for pleasure. And so we might say, but I really enjoy it and I don’t really charge a lot. So it’s kind of a hobby.

Well, that’s where we’re kind of blending those two things. And just because someone is loving it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s still a. That’s kind of the difference between the two. I think the second year trying to [00:07:00] make money from it, it is now a business and there’s such a mental shift that needs to happen there.

And I think letting go of that word and that identity of hobbyist is like the first step for sure. Okay, so the mental shift is exactly where I wanted to take this next, so I’m really glad you brought that up. What would you say to someone who they are exchanging money? They are. Running a business, even if they’re feeling like the hobbyist.

What would you say to them about that mindset shift that they really need to make because they’re calling themselves, well, it’s just a hobby, it’s just a side hustle, but they’re having that exchange of dollars to time or dollars to product, or whatever that may be. Yeah, I think. That a lot of times, especially as creatives, we might stumble into that business role where you started out doing this for friends or family, or you just love what you do in your business so much that it can be hard to see it as a business.

I think the first thing to say is that [00:08:00] feeling ready is kind of an elusive concept. Uh, and more often than not, I think we have to push past a feeling of ready and decide, give ourselves permission to step into that next role. So, Deciding that you are going to be a professional is the first step. And I remember early days of my photography business actually having to practice saying I’m a wedding photographer out loud, because saying it, I felt like I was lying even though it was true and it felt like I would say it wrong or I would.

Pat it with an excuse or I would say I’m just, sometimes I shoot weddings, but I’m also doing this and we feel the need to say what else we do. You know, what other day job we might have. And having a day job does not discount whatever it is that you’re doing in your business, and that is so, so important.

But I think that the confidence with which we talk about our business or we talk about our service or our product, Is key because if we don’t believe in it, [00:09:00] it’s going to be really, really hard for others to believe in it. And I think sometimes we wait for someone else to say like, you should be a pro at this.

You should charge more at this. And someone might even say, you should charge more, but they’re not actually willing to pay you the more. But I think it’s so important to make sure that we’re not looking externally for that first step, that we’re really just saying, I want this. I’ve decided I want this.

And that makes it valid. I love that you, you talk about how important that confidence is, but you also gave everyone an action step. To go build that confidence because it has to come from inside. You have to start with building that confidence for yourself, and if that means you walk around the house saying it out loud to yourself, or you write it on a mirror or you write it on a post-it note, whatever that may be, I really want you guys to start calling yourself what you are, and I know how hard that is.

Just this last week, I was at a conference and I should have been saying I’m an. Because the [00:10:00] book has been written, I didn’t mention it once, and so I know that resistance that you’re feeling, everyone yeah, can get it. It is hard to put those things out there, but the more you say it, the easier it gets to say it, and the more confident you feel as you say it.

And that confidence then bleeds into more sales. When you’re confident, when you’re talking to someone about what you do, they go, oh, okay. And they. What you do in their brain with you, and the next time they hear someone say, I need a wedding photographer. I need someone to set up the Deb Soto backend for me, they’re going to thank you if you’re confident enough to tell them what you do.

Yeah. I love Amanda. I love that you mentioned that you’re still navigating this because that is such a common misbelief that if I can just get through the first couple of years, I’m going to feel like that person I see online and they look so confident and they look so self-assured and their brand is so beautiful, but.

it almost doesn’t go away with every new addition to your title now saying you’re an author, which [00:11:00] is so incredible, it takes a minute to like put that identity on and to put the hat on and say like, I’m allowed to step into this. This is true. It kind of feels weird, but it’s true. And so I love that you, you’re kind of saying like, Hey, this doesn’t go away.

Like we have to keep checking and making sure. And then also that like the more you talk about it, the more people can. Your offer or service to even someone in their lives who might need it, which is so true and truly is how I found some of those first clients. Yeah. And I still to this day, if I’m like, oh, I know this person needs this person, I’m gonna help make that connection for them.

Yes. If I think of someone in, they’re like, oh, I need this person. I’m gonna say, oh, well I know someone that can help you with that. Because a referral from someone you know and trust is going to go so much farther than your content marketing will and. That, that’s the content marketing strategy saying that guys, but it’s true.

Content marketing will only get you so far and those relationships are so important. But if you don’t tell the people in your life what you do, [00:12:00] You’re not gonna get those referrals. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s even beyond a conversation. Like for me, it was hard to say, I am a wedding photographer. I am building this business.

I want to do these things In those early phases, sometimes when I didn’t have the work to back it up. It was hard to talk about, but it’s also going to bleed into the content you create. Also going to affect the captions you write and how you come across and with what kind of presence you bring even to an Instagram story, even when you open the camera and you start talking about what you can do and what you’re excited to offer.

It makes a difference cause everybody works, wants to work with someone that’s excited about what they do and is passionate about it. And I think I care a little less about how experienced someone might be versus the passion with which they will do that thing with me. Um, so really take that as like, A unique advantage when starting out is that like you can bring a lot of passion and intention and client service to the table.[00:13:00] 

Maybe not years and years and years of experience, but like really don’t let that hold you back cuz sometimes that’s not everything. That’s so true and I, again, at a conference last week, there were some incredible speakers, but most of them could not attend in person. And we had a lot of virtual speakers and I was like, you know what?

These speakers are incredible. But I would have rather have had less experienced people teaching me what they are experts in, in these same topics than have bigger. Be virtual. I would much rather have someone who was newer, less experienced, but still knew what they were talking about. Because you don’t need to be five, 10 years into your business to be an expert in what it is that you do.

Are you going to continue to improve? Absolutely. But you’re still an expert today. Yeah. Yeah. That’s such a great point, is like there’s value to being in that room. That is such a good point. I love that. Okay, so what would you say. We can do to start making that [00:14:00] shift. We’ve got the mindset, we are at least understanding that the imposter syndrome is gonna try to hold us back, and we are gonna break through that by reminding ourselves that you don’t have to be in business forever to be an expert and reminding ourselves that confidence is going to really take building up, but that we can do that and then it will bleed into other areas.

What do we do from. Yeah, this is an awesome question. I think cuz it, it can be really overwhelming to stay like, okay, we are at the bottom of this mountain, how do we get to the top? So I think breaking it down, just chunking it down a little bit into what exactly needs to happen to successfully make this transition is really what would be helpful here.

So, I like to think of a business in and going pro in that business in maybe like three factors. So the first factor or zone is your front facing brand. This is the website. This is the colors, the logos, the fonts, the stuff that I think sometimes, especially creatives, [00:15:00] hyper focus on important, but not everything.

It’s one leg of the stool. Then you have your backend, and that is your systems, your repeatable processes, templates, brochures, lots of what happens, really more so when someone starts working with you or contacts you or needs. You know, customer service in any way, shape or form. That’s your business backend.

And then you have your actual skillset or your product. So kind of chunking it down into like these three things I think can help you to know which of these areas. That they are separate, but that they all are going to need attention at different times because you might fall into one zone of hyper-focusing on one area.

So I know at first I was really, really hyper-focusing on like, I’ve got to get better at taking photos cause that’s my skillset and that’s important, right? But I’ve also got to look really professional online and I like completely forgot about the backend of my business and it [00:16:00] kind of. Had me like stumbling along as people were asking difficult questions or reaching out and wanting to make amendments to maybe my contract.

It’s like I was floundering on the back end because that just wasn’t my strong suit. It’s not where my head was at. . So I think something really important if you’re going to be making this transition into professional in your workplace is let’s get a C R M. You need the client relationship management tool.

You, if you want a lot of clients, you need to start thinking what are the tools? What are the systems, what are the templates and workflows that are going to carry me through when that client roster is full? So, think. Let’s set it up now because I delayed some of these things personally, which I think so many people encounter this because I wasn’t super busy, so I could kind of work, really not smart.

I was spinning my wheels a lot. I’m writing the same emails over and over. I’m trying to remember where I’m at in each client process, but when you have a handful of clients, Doable. And I [00:17:00] didn’t have any kids at the time, and I had all this extra time, and now I’m realizing it really wasn’t necessary for me to spend so much time on the backend of those things.

So that kind of stuff. You also have like your legal and your contracts and getting your business set up legitimately like f. Filing for an L L C or whatever business formation you end up with, this is so important. And I think that also kind of contributes to our own confidence doing some of these simple things on the backend that seem not as exciting, that nobody really sees will be important for you to know.

No, this is a real business. I do have a business bank account. It might not have lots of money in it, but it’s there , and we’re excited about that and. Setting up your backend is really important as well. So as you think about these zones, especially when you’re in school or you’re working a full-time job, and this is on the side, one thing that I love to recommend is to pick a focus maybe once a week, [00:18:00] one time a week, that you can focus in your business.

So, In your calendar, you’re blocking that time, even if it’s like a 90 minute block and then choosing, okay, either for the month or for the week, let’s focus on one of these zones. You know, you do need a brand, you do need a website. You do need those visuals, but don’t let that be the thing that sucks you in for six months.

And we haven’t worked on the craft, educated ourselves, connected with other creatives that kind of. I was so glad you mentioned the connecting with other creatives because I’m finding a lot of students falling into this trap of working on all these aspects of the school, but not building relationships in any way, shape or form with other people in their industry.

And yeah, if you don’t have, you can’t do business in a vacuum. No. Uh, yes, yes. And it’s funny, I’m like jumping ahead because that’s like totally one of my points, but it’s connect through community and through mentorship. So finding a tribe, finding a like-minded community. You know, if you can find people in your local geographic area that that’s [00:19:00] wonderful, but online is wonderful too.

And I always say there is stagnation in your isolation. So if you’re feeling stuck and. Like in the thinking, the same circular thoughts and you know, working on your website a little bit and then get an inquiry and then they ghost you. It’s like maybe get out of that. That closed world, that vacuum, just like you said, is such a great way of putting it.

It’s like if you’re just in this vacuum, you can’t expect to grow. You know? Like we have to rise to the community that we are around, that we’ve surrounded ourselves with. So, so important, and I think this also goes for like mentorship and coaching too. I think that. Easily help you to up-level your community because you have access to someone who has done it, who has been through it, who has made so many mistakes and can shed light on areas that you don’t necessarily need to go stumbling over.

And I, I don’t think it always has to be a paid thing. I think you can sometimes find mentors that are willing to take you under their wing, but I will [00:20:00] also say, That when you invest in something, something incredible happens with your commitment. I have seen this in my students’ lives. It’s, it’s wild and I’ve seen it in my own business when I put my money into something, cause money is just energy that you’re saying, I’m gonna put this towards this.

It just further confirms for you that you are doing that thing. You could say, I have committed to this. I am working on this. We are growing in this. And the, the way that you show up for yourself when you actually pay for so. Totally different game. Totally different game. And sometimes we need that accountability.

Right. . And it’s so funny cuz you and I were just talking about this before we hit record about the whole, okay, well we outsourced podcast editing right off the bat off. I didn’t write off the bat, but you did. And I got to this place where I really was feeling. Bogged down by the podcast because I was so tired of editing.

It was, I hated every second of it. And my husband and I had to sit down and have a conversation of, is this a good investment to make for the [00:21:00] business? And he was kind of like, I don’t know, like if you think it’s a good investment, I guess so. But like is the r o ROI there? Um, turns out. The quality of the podcast has shot up, not just because the editor is way better than I am at editing, but also because I can pour more deeply into the actual content because I’m not so bogged down.

I’m more invested in it. Mm-hmm. Because I’m giving someone else my money and saying, please do this for me. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think the beauty of this is like you’re short-cutting into a higher quality product as well. Yeah. And that’s really what happens in a coaching relationship. It’s like you can shortcut , they’re gonna like hand you things and and explain things and help you not spend so much time on things that you don’t need to be spending time on.

That is so in. and there’s so many other perks of having relationships. One, you’re surrounded by people that get it. . Mm-hmm. , let’s face it, a lot of times our spouses and our friends just don’t get what we’re doing in this online space, and that’s okay because it’s not something that [00:22:00] they’ve lived through.

But when you’ve got people that you can have these conversations and shortcut these conversations of, oh, here’s what I wanna do without wait, but what does that word mean? And what does that mean when you are, you know, Yes. When you’re having a conversation where it’s like, I’m trying to follow, but I don’t really know all these terminologies that you’re using, so then you have to backtrack and explain everything, and then by the time you get around, it’s like, well, we’ve spent 30 minutes talking about this, and I haven’t even gotten an answer to my question or your thoughts on it.

But when you’re in relationships with people that get it, you can ask the question and 10 seconds later have some sort of brainstorming opportunity, and so you’ve got that. They also build your confidence, which we just talked about, right? Mm-hmm. . Having someone else say, no, you are good at this. No, you are meant to do this because that imposter syndrome is never going to stop.

You’re how many years in business? Mm, nine. Nine. Okay. And I’m five. And it just, It never ends. There’s always something else to feel like you’re an imposter about, and so you have to have those people that are gonna lift you up when you’re down. Oh, I [00:23:00] hundred percent agree, and I think that takes self-awareness to know that you feel better when you’re with certain people, or that you need to surround yourself with people who get it, and you can have supporters.

There’s a difference between a community that gets it and people who support you. My mom supports me. She doesn’t understand the jargon. It’s just like you were saying, I’m gonna spend more time trying to explain to her the significance of podcast download numbers than actually getting somewhere in a conversation,

And so there’s, there’s a place for both of those people. But you just, you need both. You need the community and it’s so, it is gonna help keeping you focused on your why and why did you start this at all? Because sometimes it, it gets so overwhelming when you’re doing all the things, wearing all the hats.

you can get lost in it and the community can recenter you. I love that. Okay, so I know you said we jumped ahead a bit. So we, first action step was to focus on all three of those zones, which is, you know, the front facing brand, the back end, and then also your skills. And then we also [00:24:00] talked about the importance of relationships.

What other action steps do you have for us? Yeah, so I think just being a, a lifelong student of your craft and carving out time for that every single. . And I think breaking this down even further, it’s not just the product or the service that you bring to the table, it’s now all the different aspects of business.

So trying to grow in each of these areas slowly can look like watching a teaching or attending a conference on email marketing. And you didn’t think you were gonna be an email marketer maybe when you signed? For this business, but now you are. And so I think really committing to like the learning and growing process so important, and this can be as simple as finding a podcast like this one and just listening to it every day as you get ready or tuning into a YouTube channel if you’re more of like a visual learner.

But I think that making sure in both the time that you carve out in your schedule, Even if it’s a little bit to constantly be learning and growing, but even in a budgetary way as well, to think, [00:25:00] okay, every year I wanna reserve a little bit to reinvest back into myself. Cause I think sometimes we’re, we’re accustomed to investing back into the business.

Like for me it was like a lot of gear that made sense. I could buy that lens, I could buy that camera body and I could physically hold it. And so that felt so important. But now I. That stuff. It has wear and tear. It was important. It was tied to income. That’s wonderful, but also kind of fleeting.

Everything that I learned as a business owner, I get to take with me into any iteration that I have in business, into any pivot that I might take that bettered me as the business owner and as the c e O. So continuing to make sure that that’s kind of in its rightful place, like pouring back into you as the C E O.

Is so important and so valuable so it can feel like everything’s important at first, cuz there’s a lot on, on your roster of things to do. But developing you is also very important too. I love that I, as a former teacher, I think continuing [00:26:00] education is so important because like you said, there’s always gonna be another thing to learn.

Things are always changing and mm-hmm. , hopefully, I’m not hijacking your next point with this, but along with that, a lot of conversations we’re seeing right now is people being very unwilling to embrace change as a business owner. Mm-hmm. Oh, yes. Particularly with TikTok, which as we’re recording this, it is September.

Hopefully by now everyone listening has gotten on TikTok, but that is just the nature of being a content marketer. Yeah. Things are going to change. We get so upset when the algorithm changes and we get so upset when this and that changes when iOS updates, uh, ruin, quote unquote our ad strategy and this and that.

Mm-hmm. changes the nature of being in business. Mm-hmm. . And if you’re being stagnant, like you said, you’re not grow. Oh my gosh. I love that you mentioned this. Have you read the book? Who Moved? My Cheese? No. Okay. Game Changer. Weirdest title, game Changer. It’s so short. I actually listened to it on Audible cause I’m a big audiobook listener.

It is all about [00:27:00] change and how if we are unable to adapt to change, but it’s like so good. You have to listen to it. , if you are unable to adapt, you will not win in business. And that like the most adaptable business owners are the winners. Like we’ve experienced this the past few years with what’s happened with Covid now here with like, what looks like a recession happening, it the, the most adaptable business owners will still be making it at the end of all of this.

And it’s, it’s such a good book. So yeah, who Moved My Cheese? Great book. But then also as you’re saying this, I’m like, it’s mindset. It all comes back to mindset. It’s a scarcity mindset to be hung up on an algorithm for a free platform that exist. To reach hundreds or thousands or millions of people, and instead of seeing it as, okay, if the algorithm changed, doesn’t mean no one’s getting reached.

We just have to figure out how, like you have to figure out how to make it work for you, and really seeing it as like a land of opportunity instead of a [00:28:00] frustration situation. Like, almost like palms open instead of like fists clenched. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes, the palms open. It’s opportunity especially, particularly if we’re talking TikTok.

Again, there is so much growth opportunity. I had TikTok go viral on one of my accounts over a month ago. Wow. And every day I’m still getting followers and likes on that TikTok, and it’s just a CAT account, so it’s not doing anything for my business. But there is so much opportunity to truly get in front of thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of people on TikTok right now.

which we’re not seen on Instagram. Nope. Or anything like that anymore. Mm-hmm. . And if you’re able to be that palms open and say, okay, change is happening. I’m gonna go with the change and see what I can do and play around with it and not wait for someone to tell you best practices and not wait for someone to say, this is the best way to do it.

Just go in and experiment and it’s gonna be messy. And that’s, So good, so good. Well, if you wanna see Methy, go [00:29:00] back to my first YouTube videos, , because they’re all still there. And I wasn’t following best practices. I didn’t know, I didn’t know who to go to to learn this stuff. I mean, this was five plus years ago, but it’s crazy how like you can get stuck in like this like overthinking cycle of feeling, like if I get enough information, I will feel ready, I will not make mistakes.

And really what’s happening in there is just this like perfectionism, like analysis paralysis. And when I recognize that in myself, which happens a lot cause I want stuff to be perfect. I want it to be great and wonderful and not to look stupid online. But when I see that I real, I have to name that for what it is and say like, that is not serving me, that is not getting me clients, that is keeping me stuck.

So just name. and make a quick action. Like for me, when I’m stuck thinking about things, I’ll say, what can I post really quickly? Like, what if I set a 10 minute timer? Am I gonna go live? Am I gonna make a story? Am I gonna like something? I have to hit publish? Because if it’s been too long, the longer [00:30:00] you go, the more you build it up in your head to be more than it is.

Oh, I’m so glad you brought that up. It’s definitely a mindset of perfection. And if we can, yes, there’s a time and place where you should outsource things and you should say, let me hire an expert to tell me how to do this in the best way. Absolutely. But there’s so much inside of each of us where we can do this and we can do these things, and it’s totally possible.

And a lot of times outsourcing is just, I want a shortcut. Yeah. But in some things, a shortcut is not always, it shouldn’t be your first. No. Yeah, especially when you’re bootstrapping things in the beginning. And also I’ve heard when you’re hiring people on or when you’re outsourcing something, you should have at least a basic understanding of what it is that you’re trying to get someone to do.

So if you want someone to make all of your tos, make 10 by yourself first, know what’s possible, or you might have completely unrealistic expectations from that person, from the metrics. Also, you can’t hold them accountable. This is like why [00:31:00] when you hire an SEO expert and you know nothing about seo, you can’t actually check on their work.

You need a basic understanding of these things. And that’s why I, I, I exactly like you’re saying. I think there’s so much benefit to saying like, I have to learn these things at at least a basic level so that I know what, where am I really great? Where should I sit in my business, where I am utilized well, and then I can outsource.

And so that, That is so key because we do want a shortcut. We really, really do. , yes, and the expectations. If you have not already, go back and listen to episode 132 from November. It’s called Why Your Social Media Manager may not be getting the results you’re looking for in Spoiler. It’s not your social media manager’s fault.

Ooh. So everyone go back and listen to that one if you have not already or go re-listen because it’s a great reminder. Okay, so I know you have one more action step for everyone. I feel like we could just keep talking about this forever, but one more action step for everyone. What would that be? The final thing I think that’s [00:32:00] so important with this topic is that this is not a sprint, it is a marathon.

So pacing yourself and making sure that you’ve chunked this down into the action items that need to get done and really start getting. Good at knowing that that to-do list is gonna stay a little mountainous. That’s just like entrepreneurship. But pacing yourself, you have that time on your calendar, you’re guarding it fiercely.

You’re sitting there rotating through the three zones. Know that this is a long game and the good thing is slow growth can also equal very strong roots. And there is such a thing. And I know someone’s gonna be like, no, this sounds like a good problem. There is such a thing as growing too quickly. And if you are suddenly slammed with 30 clients and you don’t.

The booking backend support. You don’t have the systems and workflows and templates and things to draw from. You will be extremely overwhelmed and potentially not be able to deliver at that [00:33:00] client level that you really want to. I think so many times, as like small business owners, we really want that excellent client experience.

So having an appreciation for that slower growth and knowing that what you’re doing now is laying a base for a long lasting business. We don’t want just one viral video. We want a business that is gonna stand the test of. Absolutely. So good. Okay, so we have so many action steps. We’ve got mindset to revisit.

We’ve got those three zones to cycle through. We’ve got making sure you’re continuing your education and building relationships. If you were to give everyone just one action step for this week, what would it be? I think that if you do not currently have one place where all of your business stuff lives in terms of like a project management tool, so like Asana, Trello Notion is my current favorite, but whatever you will use is the right tool for you.

If you don’t currently have basically your entire [00:34:00] brain living somewhere, you are doing yourself a disservice. That should be a first step because you’re gonna hear all these amazing ideas and they all sound so pressing and so important. What I like to do is just put that on a someday maybe list so I can get it off my head.

I know we’ve written it down. We’ll get to it when we have time. Right now in this season, we’re working on backend or we’re working on our skills, we’re working on the brand, and it just helps to get that off your mind. There’s this, um, David Allen book called Getting Things Done, and he basically talks about this, like at, at, you know, he goes into all the details, but the essential part that really stood out to me was that our brains are not made to store ideas.

They are made to come up with ideas and solve creative problems. We are so good at that. So you might find that you have so many ideas, but you like almost can’t even remember if you transferred the laundry and what you’re having for dinner. It’s like you’re all over the place and one of the best things you can do is centralize everything into one.[00:35:00] 

One singular location. I think it’s great if there’s an app so that like if you’re on a walk, you can just write that thing down and move on, because you might have gotten five ideas just from this podcast. So put it down and then know where you’re gonna be, and then you can still stay in your lane while gathering ideas and while learning, because I know for me it was like, it was like a machine gun those first couple years.

It was like ideas. Ideas. Oh my gosh. Everybody’s saying all these things. I’ve never even heard of this. Okay, I need to get on TikTok. Like now I feel like the next week of my life I need to be on TikTok. It’s like, Write it down, put it where it belongs. Stay in your lane. Filing it all away is so important.

And having something that works both as a desktop and an app, that is my number one reason for loving Trello, because that, mm-hmm. for that for me is like, oh, I’m on a walk. Okay, well, I gotta get this outta my brain right now because I’m gonna forget, or I’m going to obsess over it so that I don’t forget it.

Yeah. Yeah, it’s huge and it’s huge for being feeling present. Like if your business is feeling like it’s kind of taking over your entire life, not just in the hours, but in your [00:36:00] mind, that is one way to truly put a pin in it and then say like, we can, we can be present now. We can be with our spouse, we can be with the kids, we can be with friends.

We can be alone and not be thinking. What are we doing with the email funnel , you know? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so you’ve given us two great book recommendations already, but if there was like a top tier, everyone needs to go read this book right now, what would it be? soundtracks by John AK or start by John aaf.

So I’m like, does it count cuz it’s the same author. Can I say too, you can absolutely say too of these books have changed my life. Start is incredible for if you’re feeling fearful and you haven’t made the leap and you know what you wanna start and you just fear is what’s stopping you? Soundtracks, oh my gosh.

Truly, I think every single human being should read soundtracks because you will learn how to replace the negative soundtracks in your mind. All the mindsets that you might even not realize you’re holding onto, that are actively holding you back from the life you want [00:37:00] most. That’s great. I read either those, so I’m gonna add those to my library list as soon as we get off of this call.

And he’s hilarious. He narrates his own books and he’s also a comedian, so like they’re actually really good reads or listens. Either way. They’re really funny. Okay, great, thank you. Yeah. Okay, so now everyone is obsessed with you as I am, and they want more of you. Where should they go if they want to just hear more of you, if they want to work with you, where should we send them?

Yeah, I, so my website is Joy michelle.co. I am at Joy Michelle on Instagram. You can come tune into the podcast. It is called to both and. The Facebook group is Photo Boss with Joy Michelle. So if you’re a photographer and you are like, yes, I need all of these things to up-level my business and. Turn what’s now very passionate into something that’s also profitable.

Come join me inside of photo Bos. I would absolutely love to have you. Okay, great. Perfect. We will link to all of that in the show notes. Joy, thank you so much for being here today. I [00:38:00] really appreciate it. Oh my gosh. Pleasure is mine.

Thank you so much for joining me here today, friend. If you loved this episode, it would mean the world to me if you’d leave a rating and review. This is a great way to help spread the word about this podcast. Help other wonderful women like yourself find it. You can find this episode show notes as well as tons of other great resources over@amandawarfield.com.

And if you aren’t following me on Instagram yet, I’d love to connect with you over there. I’m at Mrs. Amanda Warfield. Shoot me a DM and tell me what you love most about this episode. Thanks for being here, friend. I’ll see you next time.

Hey friend! Just a head’s up — this post may contain affiliate links!

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