Episode 183: How to Convert Leads Into Immediate Customers (Tripwires, Order Bumps, Upsells, Downsells Oh MY) with Destini Copp

October 24, 2023

Chasing Simple Marketing


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I'm  Amanda — simplicity-focused content marketing strategist.  I'm here to help you fit your marketing into your business.

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Destini Copp teaches us how to convert leads into customers by using evergreen funnels in this very practical episode.

Convert Leads Into Customers With Destini Copp

Tripwires, Order Bumps, Upsells, One Time Offers, Downsells …. oh my.

What are they? Words that are used interchangeably but mean the same thing? Do they have different meanings? How do we use them? When do we use them? What is the purpose of each …

If your head it spinning, it’s okay. These are questions that I’ve been trying to find concrete answers to for years. And I finally got the chance in today’s interview with my friend Destini, who is an expert on evergreen funnels.

Dr. Destini Copp helps business owners increase their passive income revenue with digital products and evergreen sales funnels. She is a college marketing professor turned online entrepreneur and a wanna-be, Serena Williams-like, tennis player. She is the host of The Course Creator’s MBA Podcast and author of the best-selling book, Launch Your Online Course Business in 90 Days or Less.

As you’ll hear in this episode, I ask a lot of really nitty-gritty and specific questions so that you and I can figure out the big picture of all of these pieces of an evergreen funnel. This episode is VERY practical, and I think you’re going to love it.

Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

  • Really quickly, before we dive into this episode – I just HAVE to share something I’m really excited about with you. My book, Chasing Simple Marketing, is launching this July. I wrote this book for the business owner that stumbled into entrepreneurship because they were following their passion. But without that Masters of Business Administration (MBA) or background in business, they find marketing overwhelming and frustrating. Throughout these pages, I’m going to take you on a simplicity-focused journey to improve your content marketing and you’ll walk away with an actionable plan to simplify your marketing, so that you can fit your marketing into your business, without it taking over your business. To learn more about how to grab your copy, and even potentially get on the launch team head over to amandawarfield.com/book/ See you there!
  • This week’s episode is brought to you by the Chasing Simple Content Planner and you can grab your own at amandawarfield.com/planner/
  • Summit
  • This week’s action step: Start slow with just one step.
  • This week’s book recommendation: Atomic Habits by James Clear and The Housemaid by Freida McFaden
  • Find me on Instagram and tell me you completed this week’s action step: @mrsamandawarfield

Destini Copp teaches us how to convert leads into customers by using evergreen funnels in this very practical episode.

Dr. Destini Copp helps business owners increase their passive income revenue with digital products and evergreen sales funnels. She is a college marketing professor turned online entrepreneur and a wanna-be, Serena Williams-like, tennis player. She is the host of The Course Creator’s MBA Podcast and author of the best-selling book, Launch Your Online Course Business in 90 Days or Less.

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Amanda Warfield: Tripwires, order bumps, upsells, one time offers, downsells, oh my. What are they? Words that are used interchangeably but mean the same thing? Do they have different meanings? How do we use them? When do we use them? What is the purpose of each? If your head is spinning, it’s okay. These are questions that I’ve been trying to find concrete answers to for years, and I’ve finally got the chance in today’s interview with my friend Destiny, who is an expert on evergreen funnels.

Dr. Destiny Kopp helps business owners increase their passive income revenue with digital products and evergreen sales funnels. She’s a college marketing professor turned online entrepreneur and a wannabe Serena Williams like tennis player. She’s the host of the Course Creators MBA podcast and author of the bestselling book, Launch Your Online Course Business in 90 Days or Less.

As you’ll hear in this episode, I ask a lot of really nitty gritty and specific questions so that you and I can figure out the big picture of all of these pieces of an evergreen funnel. This episode is very practical, and I think you’re going to love it. You’re listening to episode 183 of The Chasing Simple Podcast, and I’m your host, Amanda Warfield.

This episode was brought to you by The Chasing Simple Content Planner, and you can grab your 2024 version at amandawarfield. com / planner.

How do I find time to create content without overwhelming myself? Where should I even be showing up in my marketing? How do I come up with fresh content ideas? Where should I be focusing my marketing efforts? What is lead generation anyways, and how do I do it? Are launches still a thing? And most importantly, how do I put it all together to market my business strategically?

Can I really grow my business without spending all of my time marketing? These are some of the questions that float around in your head when you think of marketing. Welcome, friend. This is Chasing Simple, where practical marketing strategy meets simplicity. I’m your host, Amanda Warfield, simplicity focused content marketing and launch strategist, speaker, educator, and author of Chasing Simple Marketing.

I traded in my classroom lesson plans for helping creative entrepreneurs sustainably fit marketing into their business without it taking over their business. So that they have time to grow their business, take time off, and live the life they dreamed about when they first decided to go out on their own.

When I’m working, you can find me working with one on one clients, such as The Contract Shop and Rebecca Rice Photography on their marketing strategy and copywriting, or helping my students simplify their marketing and launches. And when I’m not, you can find me spending time outside with my husband, Russell.

Reading in our hammock, watching Gamecock Sports, traveling, or forcing our cats to snuggle me. If you feel overwhelmed by marketing, you aren’t alone. Many entrepreneurs find marketing frustrating, overwhelming, and simply an obligation. They know they need it, but they don’t enjoy how easily it can suck up their time when what they really want to be doing…

is the thing that they started their business to do. Which is why I’m here. To help make marketing simple and less time consuming, so that you can spend less time on your marketing, and more time growing your business and doing what you love. Each week, I’ll bring you transparent conversations, actionable steps, and judgment free community to encourage and equip you.

So grab yourself a cup of coffee or whatever your drink of choice is, and meet me here each week for love, support, practical tips, and advice on uncomplicating your marketing and business. Let’s do this entrepreneurship thing together, shall we? Really quickly, before we dive into this episode, I just have to share something that I’m really excited about with you.

My book, Chasing Simple Marketing, is launching this July. I wrote this book for the business owner that stumbled into entrepreneurship because they were following their passion, but without that master’s of business administration or that background in business, well, they find marketing… Overwhelming and frustrating throughout these pages.

I’m going to take you on a simplicity focused journey to improve your content marketing. And you’ll walk away with an actionable plan to simplify your marketing so that you can fit your marketing into your business. Without it taking over your business to learn more about how to grab your own copy and even potentially get on the launch team, head over to Amanda warfield.

com slash book. I’ll see you there. Destiny. I am so excited to have you on for this episode for everyone who has been through the chasing simple summit. They will recognize destiny’s name and her voice for sure. But if you haven’t yet, this is destiny. She is going to be teaching us so many incredible things today.

But before we dive into all of that, why don’t you go ahead and just introduce yourself and tell everyone who you are and 

Dr. Destini Copp: what you do. So, I mean, I’m super excited to be here and to chat with you. I feel like I’ve known you forever. I haven’t really had a chance. To, um, to chat with you on an intimate level like this.

So I’m super excited to do this today. And, uh, my name is Dr. Destiny Copps. So I’m a college marketing professor turned online entrepreneur. And I do a lot of different things in my business as a lot of us do. We have like multiple, you know, multiple things that we’re interested in that we’re working to talk about today is.

You know, where I help people and that is creating digital products, but more importantly, selling them and how to turn people who are just getting to know you and getting exposed to you and what you do. Into an immediate customer. So that’s what we’re going to chat about today. And I am super excited to delve into this with you, Amanda.

Me too. And 

Amanda Warfield: Destiny will probably be the only Clemson. Are you a Clemson grad 

Dr. Destini Copp: or just? So for my undergraduate degree, I’m a Clemson grad. So we are definitely enemies. If you’re talking about the Carolina Gamecocks, but that is our mortal mortal enemy, but yes, a Clemson grad. Way back yonder. Um, yeah. Love Clemson.

We’re huge Clemson fans here. Clemson and Georgia Tech here because we’re kind of a split family, but yes. Well, I don’t 

Amanda Warfield: love it, but I’m really glad you’re here. You will probably be the only Clemson fan I ever interview on the podcast, but I just adore you so much that I just don’t even care. Oh, there you go.

Okay. So I love something that you said in your intro. You mentioned not only to create digital products, but to sell them and that right there, I feel like is the bane of my existence all in one place. The amount of times I have students or clients come to me and say, well, I created this digital product because that’s what everyone says to do.

And now it’s not selling like, well, you’re not, you’re not doing anything to sell it. You’re not marketing it. You’re not setting up anything on the backend. And I get it. It’s really hard when you have multiple offers too. Sell and market all of those things. There’s a lot going on. I struggle with it myself.

We all do, but you are an expert in something that’s going to help us set things up on the back end so that we don’t have to focus all of our front facing marketing on some of our offers so that we can. Take a little bit of that pressure off of ourselves. So we’re still selling our stuff without constantly feeling like we’re selling our stuff.

Can you tell us a little bit about 

Dr. Destini Copp: that? And I think you touched upon an important point there, Amanda, that we all struggle with, I struggle with it. And that is, you know, we always feel like we’re constantly selling in, in reality, in our business. We need to be almost constantly selling. Right. And I can almost promise you that your audience doesn’t think that you are right.

And, and reality is they probably don’t even know about half the offers that you have in your business. I know if you talk to people that are, maybe even on my email list or like you do that, I didn’t even know you did that. Well, I haven’t been talking about it enough and that’s just, you know, shame on me for doing that.

But one of my. Favorite ways to promote an offer where I’m not really being salesy. I’m actually getting, getting, giving somebody something for free is to do a tripwire offer. And really what that looks like is, and if you go to my website, I have a lot of different examples there because I think almost all of them, and I’d have to go back and look, but I think almost all of them have a tripwire offer on the back end of it, all of our free offers.

So you have some type of free offer, whether it’s like a training that you’re doing or a planner or journal or, you know, some of mine are just Google Sheets where people can go and just, you know, download a Google Sheet. But basically, they go to your landing page, wherever that is. I have mine only pages you can use.

ConvertKit landing page if you have ConvertKit or whatever. I mean, there’s tons of different options out there, but you go to that landing page and somebody signs up for your free offer, which you can post on social media. You’re not being salesy, right? Or you can have it in your link tree. You know, I have them in my link tree.

Go, go grab this free gift, or you can even send out an email. Go here and sign up. I have this brand new, you know, free gift for you. They can sign up for it. And then on the next page, instead of like a generic thank you page, you have this, you know, wait, before you go, I have this. special offer that you may be interested in.

And it’s just really a no brainer type offer that they look at and say, Oh my gosh, you know, I really got to have this Amanda. So they’ll, they’ll, you know, scroll down, you know, learn a little bit more about it, but it’s really a way to promote your offers where you’re just not. Being salesy. And in addition to that, another thing that I have set up that is really kind of been, it’s really been a game changer for my business, quite frankly.

Um, and I’ll just go ahead and tell you that I’m using what tool I’m using for this and I’m using Thrivecart. So when they go to checkout on that next, on that cart, you have an order bump. So that’s another way, another place that you can sell one of your low cost digital offers. Like I’ll typically have like a 9 order bump there, and I can’t even, I was just going through my numbers today.

So many people take me up on those, those really low cost 9 order bumps. And then even after that, you can have a couple of upsells. If you have other products in your business, maybe it’s, um, maybe it’s a membership trial. Right. So just a free seven day, 14 day membership trial. So that’s another way you can keep going, you know, in that one sales funnel that you have.

Amanda Warfield: Okay. So many good things within there that I want to dive into. But first something that I want to touch on is the, you mentioned Linktree and that’s just having a link in your bio. That’s got A bunch of different options for people to look at. And for the longest time, I would see people with these and I would go, there’s no way I have enough people clicking into my profile.

That would actually look at that. I don’t have that many followers. There’s no way that many people like Instagrams, you know, according to Natalie Frank in an engagement recession, right? Like I figured there’s no, it’s not worth my time to create one of those. Well, I created, I finally got over myself basically.

And I created my own website page where I just have a bunch of different buttons, people can click, put it in my bio. I have been amazed. At how many people are actually clicking that. And it’s not like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, but it’s still enough that I’m like, I wish I’d been doing this five years ago when I was thinking that I never had enough people because it’s, you know, 15 people a week is a lot of people seeing the different things that you have to offer and that you’re actually looking at showcasing upfront.

So for anyone who’s like, that’s not for me, I’m not big enough, or I don’t have whatever your excuses. Have some kind of multi link thing in your bio because for the longest time I was like, I’ll just change out the one link. It’s fine. Then you forget. You get busy and you forget and you don’t change things out.

And then you put up a post that says, go look at my bio and it’s not in your bio and no one gets to go see it. So anyways, just a little side tangent there. Oh, I have so many questions. Let’s start with tripwires. You mentioned that they are. that initial page right after someone signs up for a freebie.

What have you found tends to work really well for tripwires, both in the way you lay out the page, the offer you put up, just kind of all that. What have you found works 

Dr. Destini Copp: really well? Well, I would say that the good news is there’s a lot of different things that work well there. I mean, it could just a simple spreadsheet that you’re selling.

Maybe you put together, uh, I’m talking off the top of my head here, but maybe you help people, you know, get out of debt. Maybe that tripwire offer is just a simple budgeting, you know, I’ll use the Dave Ramsey type thing, debt snowball spreadsheet that you have put together that you’re selling for, you know, 17 or whatever.

It doesn’t have to be a super, you know, Extravagant, you know, hot, you know, mini course. If you spent a ton and ton of time, it could be something extremely simple. You could go get a journal, like one of those done for you type journals, put your special touches on it for your own unique business and sell it in, you know, as a tripwire, like I said, it doesn’t have to be anything, you know, major, you know, you’ve put a ton of time in it.

Just get something that’s valuable for your audience and test it out. It may be that it works. It may be that it doesn’t work. It may people, you know, I’ve built tripwires. I’m like, yeah, that didn’t do so well, but I’ve looked at my data and I’ve, you know, made some changes there and kind of tweaked it. I, you know, in terms of the sales page, it does need to be a sales page.

I mean, you are selling a product, but it doesn’t have to be, you know, a mile long, you know, generally my tripwire sales pages are fairly short. They’re not, you know, extremely in depth, extremely long. Um, another tip that I’ll just kind of throw out there. One of the things that we’ve been doing here lately It’s using AI writers for our sales pages, you can use chat g p T.

And that has really helped us. ’cause we’re not copywriters, you know, I’m not a copywriter. Probably good at marketing, but I’m certainly not a copywriter. And that’s kind of helped us. So if you’re really struggling, you’re like, I don’t know what to do, I don’t know what to put on my sales page. There are, you know, prompts that you go into and kind of put those in, in, you know, one of the AI writers to help you write that content.


Amanda Warfield: have you found that there’s a certain price range that tends to work well for tripwires? What 

Dr. Destini Copp: does that look like? Yeah, so that’s a really good question. And I would say it kind of just depends upon your audience. Generally kind of the B to C type audience. So if you’re marketing to consumers, you might go on, you know, it might be a little bit lower, might work better, you know, 27, 37.

I have even gone up to like 49 even for a B to C type. audience and it still sold very well, still converted extremely well for the beta, um, you know, the business audiences or B2B, you can go up a little bit higher. I’ve done anywhere from like 49 to even up to like 79 and 99 for those. And those have sold well.

So it’s just a matter of kind of testing them out and, you know, figure out kind of what works for you. 

Amanda Warfield: Yeah. And with these tripwires that you’re setting up for yourself and your students and your clients. With the offer that you’re offering the tripwire. Are you doing a limited time discount or are you just saying here’s the offer?

What tends to work better there? Or does it 


Dr. Destini Copp: This is another great question because I would say that we’ve tested out both ways. We’ve tested out not having, um, not having that timer on that sales page. And we’ve tested it out having that timer on that sales page. And I will tell you in our test, And what we’ve done, and we’ve tested this both in B2C audiences and B2B, because I do have a B2C business where we’re marketing toward to consumers, and we’ve tested it in both of those audiences.

And only, I only recommend putting timers on there and really truly making it a limited time offer. Um, we do 20 minutes. Um, we’ve actually tested even up to like 30 minutes. We lost them. 15 to 20 minutes seems to be the sweet spot there for all the tests that we have done. Um, but you have to have a limited time offer.

And basically what we do, you know, after that timer ends, they can still purchase it. It’s just not at that special discount. And some people do go back and purchase it, um, at the higher price. But, you know, we kind of live, live by what we say and say the discounts only available for this amount of time and having that urgency in there and kind of forcing that fear of missing out has definitely helped with conversion rates.

Amanda Warfield: So helpful. Okay. So are there any. Other than what we’ve already talked about, are there any mistakes that you tend to see people do with tripwires? 

Dr. Destini Copp: Any mistakes? Um, I, you know, when you’re writing in a really, most of it comes down to the sales page and how you’re clearly kind of communicating, um, the benefits is you talk more about what’s in it for them, the benefits, what are they going to get out of that product, rather than going into.

Here are the features like here’s what you’re going to see, you know, here’s what you’re going to learn in module one, or here’s what module one’s about, you know, that’s. That’s somewhat interested and you know, some people might be interested in that, but really they want to know is what is their transformation once they go through and consume your content, whether it’s a Google sheet or plan or journal, or even if you’re selling one of your many courses there, they really want to know what their outcomes going to be, what their transformation is going to be.

And that’s what you need to focus on. In your marketing copy and an AI writer can definitely help you do that. If that’s something that you struggle with, you know, you’re kind of, you’re not alone because I’m in that same boat. I think a lot of people struggle with that. That’s really what you want to kind of hone in on tests and kind of test there.

So if somebody, um, what we, and I’ll just go into some of the data there if you, if you want me to, Amanda, but what we really try to shoot for on the conversion rates of the tripwire are around 10 to 15%. And I would say if you’re in that range, your, your trip wires converting, you know, at a, at a good, you know, at a good rate, if you’re much lower than that, I’d really, you know, go in and see kind of what you could do and tweak on that sales page to more clearly communicate their transformation or their benefits there.

So just to 

Amanda Warfield: reiterate that math, because this is where people get tripped up so often, they put something up and they think it’s not working because. They probably haven’t driven enough traffic to it. So if you have 100 people, see that tripwire page. That means that what you’re aiming for is 10 to 15 sales out of that 100 people.

And so it’s not something that’s going to convert every single person that sees it. It is going to be a smaller percentage. And I think that’s something that’s so key to point out. So thank you for sharing those numbers. If we’re not hitting that 10 to 15%. Tweaking the copy obviously is going to be something worth doing, making sure we’ve got some kind of actual limited time offer, not a fake limited time offer, a real limited time offer.

Are there any other things that we can look at to tweak on that page to try to bump that conversion rate up? 

Dr. Destini Copp: So, um, I definitely will go back to your question, but I also want to reiterate about the numbers a little bit. When I’m, when we’re talking about a hundred people hitting that sales page. So what’s going to happen when somebody comes into your lead magnet?

They see your they go to your landing page for your lead magnet. Not everybody’s going to sign up for that. Right? So you may get 50 percent conversion rate on that. I’d like to see a little bit higher than that, but you might not get it. So you have 50 people signing up. Not everybody’s going to land on your tripwire page.

Some people are just going to sign up leave. They’re not even going to see it. So you really have to look. Let’s say you’re using lead pages. You really have to look and see how many people actually saw it. So that’s number one point. Um, so let’s go back and talk about it. So you, you asked me, you know, they’re going into your, your.

Tripwire is not converting. It’s not in that 10 to 15 that we’d like to see what else could they look at? Obviously the copy is one. Um, and it could be the offers just not as compelling as you would like it to be. I don’t normally go there. You know, first off, because a lot of, a lot of the products that you guys are creating are fantastic.

And you know, that is something that your, your audience wants, but that’s another place that I would go look at and see, another thing is just the headline really hone in on the headline and see if the headline is really capturing their attention. Another thing that we do on our tripwire sales pages is we install hotjar.

And basically what Hotjar does, it will tell you kind of where people are going on that sales page and when they’re dropping off. So if they’re getting to a certain section on that sales page and they’re not going further, that might, that might be a clue saying, you know, we need to go back and look at that sales page or that section on that sales page saying, you know, if they’re dropping off here, something’s wrong with that section.

Um, so that’s another thing to look at. Another thing would be to put a video. Hello. Up there, videos tend to convert very well. It could just be a three minute video, super, super short. You going over what, you know, what the offer is and what their transformation or the benefits would be by taking advantage of it.

So those are some things that I would look at and things that we look at when we, you know, when we have things that just aren’t working as well as we would like. Oh my gosh, this is so helpful. There’s so many good nuggets 

Amanda Warfield: in here. Um, okay, so we’ve got our tripwire set up. We’re working towards that 10 to 15 percent conversion rate and working on improving that.

Next you talked about order bumps, which when they’re paying for the tripwire, you said was just like that one click upsell basically that someone can say, yes, I want this. Tell us a little bit about how you utilize 

Dr. Destini Copp: those in your businesses. Yeah, so order bumps are actually one of my favorite things because we get such high conversion rates on them.

So generally we’re seeing, and this is pretty consistent for almost all of our funnels, a 30 percent conversion rate, 30 percent Amanda on that order bump. 30 percent conversion sounds incredible. 

Amanda Warfield: But is that because you guys are just. Genius and incredible at what you do, or is that what we should be aiming for?

I mean, obviously we should always be aiming for better than what we have, but you know what I mean? 

Dr. Destini Copp: Yeah, so really industry standard. If you look at all of the, you know, kind of the industry standard data out there is 20 to 30%. So I’d like to shoot for 30 percent because that means that, you know, I feel confident that we’re, we’re doing what we can and doing everything we can to maximize it.

Right. Um, but generally 20 to 30 percent is industry standard. 

Amanda Warfield: Okay, great. And have you seen, well, what works? Why don’t you tell me that? What, what do you find that works for the order bumps? 

Dr. Destini Copp: really low cost, no brainer type offers. And it needs to be something that somebody can look at it and say, Oh, I got to have that because you don’t have a lot of place to put any copy or anything.

Basically you’re just telling them what it is. You might get a little bitty paragraph to describe it. But it just needs to be something that is absolutely no brainer. So maybe a 7 offer or a 9 offer, but I wouldn’t go much higher than that because it really just needs to be something that they can click and move on.


Amanda Warfield: And are you discounting these? As well, or is that, that’s an offer you have that’s just always seven or $9. So 

Dr. Destini Copp: I, I really recommend that folks have these in their back pocket and it could be, um, and I’ll give you some examples of some of the ones that we do. So a planner or a journal, Or one of the ones that we do for our summit is like a digital organizer.

So helping them organize all of their digital resources, just a 9 type workbook. It comes with a Google sheet too, that they can use to kind of keep track of everything that they’ve purchased in the VIP All Access Pass, but journals. planner, spreadsheets, you know, something that is something that people understand, right?

They know what a journal is. They know what a planner is. They know what a google sheet or an excel spreadsheet looks like so they know what they’re getting because you don’t want them to be confused on what they’re getting because it’s like I said, it’s just they’re going to look at it. They’re going to know exactly what they’re getting.

They’re going to hit that button and move on. Okay. 

Amanda Warfield: Okay. Great. And any tips or things to avoid for order bumps? Like I know, like you said, there’s, there’s a very small amount of space that you really have to play with, 

Dr. Destini Copp: but yeah. So I would always recommend including a visual. So for a lot of the cart systems, you’ll have a place to put like a, A title, maybe a headline for it, a little bitty paragraph.

Obviously, you have a place for the price point. And a lot of them will also give you a place for the image. And I would say definitely, you know, make use of that. Because going back to that old saying, right? A picture’s worth a thousand words. You know, giving them a visual of exactly what they’re going to be getting.

They can just look at the picture and say, Oh yeah, I understand it. I get it. That’s what I want. I want to go ahead and, you know, sign up for that. And then you 

Amanda Warfield: also mentioned upsells. And same kind of questions. I mean, what are best practices for that? What are we looking at as far as, you know, what, what works best for an 

Dr. Destini Copp: upsell?

Yeah, so I’ll give you some examples for this, and there’s really a lot of different things that you could test and use as an upsell. We’ve, we’ve, you know, done some that have worked. We’ve done some that haven’t worked. Um, the key to all of this. And I really did fail to mention this earlier, but the key to all of this is thinking about the customer journey and all of this needs to tie in together.

So you have your lead magnet, you have your trip wire, which needs to be related to your lead magnet, right? Then you’re going to have your order bump. that still needs to tie in to what you’re doing. Uh, and, and also with the upsell. So just to give you an example of somebody that I’ve worked with in the past, and I don’t remember exactly all of her products, but she was in, she helped people plan home gardens.

So she had like a, a lead magnet and I want to say it was something like planning your home garden. So it was like a planner or something like that. And then on the tripwire, it was a mini course on like container gardening. So going out and building like a container garden, if people know what that is, and order bump on that was like, you know, some type of ebook on, you know, tips on tomato plants.

You know, because people, you know, struggle with kind of keeping them alive. And then, um, one of her upsells was, uh, one on one virtual consulting with her, which I thought was fantastic because, you know, that, you know, that’s really, um, you know, a great way to kind of go ahead and get people to engage with you if that is something that you have.

So it doesn’t even have to be a digital product. It could be a service like that, like a consulting service that you have. Another thing that I’ve seen that works very well in upsells is like a free 14 day or seven day trial. So if you have like a membership where you want people to kind of, you know, test it out, Because they’re getting a free trial, that’s, you know, a great way to go ahead and get them to kind of get a taste on what your membership is.

So there’s a lot of different things that you can do with these upsells. Of course, too, you can still sell your digital products. in the upsell. So in an upsell page you’re going to have more room for your sales copy and more room for images so you can go into a little bit more detail than you could like with an order bump.

So you can sell a higher priced Digital product here. So if you had like a 99 product or even, you know, 200 product, you could include that in an upsell. Okay, 

Amanda Warfield: so let me see if I if I’m paraphrasing this correctly when we’re trying to decide which different offers to put in these different places. You kind of want your mid range offer to 

Dr. Destini Copp: be the tripwire, 

Amanda Warfield: potentially at a discount.

You want one of your low range offers to be the ups, nope, the one click order bump. And then, uh, larger, higher ticket item would be the upsell at the 

Dr. Destini Copp: end. Generally, yes, the higher ticket items are going to be the upsells, but I’ll just throw a little bit of a monkey wrench in there. A lot of the funnel systems out there, Thrivecart included, you can do, if somebody didn’t take you up on that upsell, you could do a downsell there, too.

So, I mean, like I said, there’s a lot of different ways you can set this up and test it out. So, let’s just say, For instance, let’s just say you had, you had somebody doing a free 14 day trial. And let’s just say they took you up on that. You can also even do an upsell for an annual membership past that.

Say, oh, you’re interested in this? Do you want to get two months off? If you do, you can go ahead and purchase the annual membership and get these amazing bonuses for being an annual member. So you can keep going. Um, and, and, you know, as long as you have them and they haven’t clicked out, there you go. Wow.

Amanda Warfield: So what, what should we be shooting for conversion rate wise for the initial upsell? 

Dr. Destini Copp: Let’s, let’s say. So generally the initial upsell, and they’re also called one time offers, depending on what system you’re using. People call them different things. It’s actually going to be a little bit lower, so five to ten percent is generally what you’ll see as the industry average for something like that.

So not a lot, but you know, it’s worth it, right? Because you’re tripwire was 27, and you have a non dollar order bump, and then you have a Upsell, that’s another 50. Think about what that, you know, what that initial free lead magnet turned into, 

Amanda Warfield: right? Absolutely. And then for the people that say no, thanks to that initial upsell and they get the downsell, what conversion rate does that typically bring in on 

Dr. Destini Copp: average?

Um, I don’t really have those numbers, Amanda. I’m sorry. It’s fine. I’m just getting really like, I personally have never done an upsell like that. Just because the products and services that I have just didn’t fit. Well, but there’s, like I said, there’s a lot of different ways you can set this up and the other thing is they’re on your email list.

So, let’s just say they didn’t take advantage of any of this. that none of it. You still have the opportunity to go through, you know, week down the road, two weeks down the road, and circle back and offer that, you know, online course or whatever you were offering them as that initial tripwire. You can still offer it, you know, at whatever price point you want to.

You can give them like a 20 percent off discount. Might not be as much as it would have been. At the tripwire offer, but you can still do things to entice them to go ahead and sign up. Oh, man, this is all so 

Amanda Warfield: good. If you could give everyone just 1 action step to take this week after listening to this episode, 

Dr. Destini Copp: what would it be?

I would say don’t get overwhelmed and really start slow. So. I’m assuming that the majority of you out there have your lead magnet set up, right? So you have your lead magnet and you have your thank you page. The next step will be to figure out what kind of, you know, what tripwire you want to offer. And like I said, keep it simple.

It could be a planner, a journal, a spreadsheet. It doesn’t have to be a full blown course. I would keep it simple and start small. It could be something that you’re selling for 17. I don’t care. It could be a 9 offer for all of my, you know, for all tits and purposes. It could be a 9 offer that you’re going to use as an order bump later down the road.

But start small. Set up that sales page, use an AI writer if you need help with it, and go ahead and get that set up in your business so you can start getting a little bit of income there and start like learning how to do this and test it out. Look at your data, figure out how it’s working, and again you’ll be selling.

And then you can add additional products as you build on to them in your business. There’s lots of opportunities. We’ve talked about all of those today. 

Amanda Warfield: And I think an important point that you just made is to test it. We’re not setting and forgetting these things. We’re setting them up and then we are going to wait a little bit and come back and look at the data and see how we can improve it.

Dr. Destini Copp: would recommend doing that at least once a month. Love it. Yeah, going back and look at it at least once a month. And a lot of the issue, if you feel like you’re not getting enough sales, a lot of it’s a traffic issue. It’s not that your stuff’s not converting. You just need a lead generation demand. You know, you need lead generation in there to really, you know, see what’s working and what’s not working.

I’d like to see a minimum of 100 people go through it. Absolutely. Okay. 

Amanda Warfield: So for everyone who’s like, this is, I’m overwhelmed. I need help. Destiny, how can you help me? Where can they go to find more about 

Dr. Destini Copp: what you do? Yeah, so you definitely go to my website, destinycop. com. We have a lot of free magnets out there.

On the back end of those lead magnets, you will see, I’ll just go ahead and tell you, you will see our tripwire offer. So if you’re interested in creating an online course, we have an offer for that. If you’re interested in setting up one of these evergreen funnels that we’re talking about today. We have an offer for that too.

Perfect. And we’ll 

Amanda Warfield: definitely link to that in the show notes. Now I don’t let anyone leave without giving it one book recommendation for everyone. So what’s one book that everyone absolutely needs to go read and it doesn’t have to be work. It can totally be fiction, but it can be work 

Dr. Destini Copp: related too. So this is very difficult for me because I am an avid avid reader.

I have probably 2000 Kindle books and I don’t know how many books in my house. A lot of books. I would say business wise, one that I think every business owner needs to listen to or read is Atomic Habits by James Clear. And really what I love about that, and I really take the heart with that, and one of the things that I’m trying to do personally is You know, get healthier, lose a little weight, you know, and it’s really, as I went back to read the book, it’s really about that one little step that you’re going to take every day to get better.

So, you know, and one of the things that my coach is trying to get me to do is eat more protein. So one little step. So she gave me some tips on how to do that this week, and I’m trying to do those one little steps. to eat more protein. So from a business standpoint, that’s it. I will tell you, I just want to tell you, I have started a new series and this is not business related.

So if anybody would be interested in that, I found a new author and I’m trying to pull it up on my audio app. See if I can get it to do this. And her name is Frida McFadden. And one of the books I read This week is the housemate secrets and I read another one of her was called the housemate and it was fantastic.

It really was good. We will link those in the show notes. 

Amanda Warfield: I’m excited to check that out. That sounds very interesting. Destiny, thank you so much for being here today. I’m so grateful that you came on to share all this knowledge about something that Honestly, I think a lot of these words get thrown out in conjunction with each other.

So I really, really appreciate you coming on and just helping us make it a little bit more clear what they’re for and how we can use them in our businesses. 

Dr. Destini Copp: Well, thank you so much for having me, Amanda. I enjoyed being here.

Amanda Warfield: Thank you so much for joining me here today, friend. You can find this episode show notes, as well as all the resources you need to simplify your marketing over at amandawarfield. com. If you liked what you heard here today, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss an episode. And if you could take a moment to leave a rating and review, it would truly mean the world to me.

Ratings and reviews are the number one way that you can support a podcast and ensure that it sticks around for many more episodes to come. I’ll see you next time, now go out and uncomplicate your marketing and business.

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